karlitschek commented 2 days ago Sorry but we don´t want to dumb more libraries in the ownCloud core only because they might be useful. Apps are free to ship components like that if they want to use it. At the later stage if 4-5 apps ship the same component in the exact same version then we might consider to add the to the ownCloud core, or not. :-1: karlitschek commented 2 days ago I'm not saying this is not useful, secure, good code or in other ways helpful. But this doesn't mean that we should dump all useful code into the core. The design goal of the owncloud core is to be as small as possible. In fact it is already too big. So if this is useful then we should use it for the news app API first and perhaps other apps. This doesn't mean that we have to dump it into the core to make it heavier, difficult to maintain and to keep stable tanghus commented 21 hours ago As it has been - wisely - decided to move the AppFramework to core, I am interested in having it both lean, but more importantly usable and secure. Therefore I prefer to have great implementations which are closely scrutinized for security issues. A security issue that would be present in at least 3 apps has already been detected. I think that speaks for itself for including it in core. tanghus commented 9 hours ago In case my point didn't come clearly thru, as I may sometimes try to soften my views when putting them into words. The design goal of the owncloud core is to be as small as possible. In fact it is already too big. Recommendable, but what does that exactly mean? What is not needed in core? archive, migration, memcache, ocs, vobject, activitymanager, api, avatar, backgroundjob, cache, contactsmanager, tags, eventsource or files for that matter? Plus everything else under /apps. Fine, lets scrap it and start from scratch. I can actually mention a few that I wouldn't be missed (including some of my contributions), but that's another matter. Design-wise it would probably be good, but we would be left with basically nothing. Some of the good decisions that have been made during the past ~1½ year - from my PoV - are The strict adherence to interfaces in new contributions The introduction of the Server "container" The (partly) inclusion of the AppFramework. Those - and other - changes can make it possible to actually move towards a mature, trustworthy codebase. I have no special attachments to including CORS middleware, but I understand from several parties, that I trust, that it is a small, yet important part to include, and rejecting it as bloat is both disrespectful and counter-productive. So my rant is not about CORS - it's about the culture and attitude that I sometimes see in this community. What I seen is community members reluctant to voice their opinions for improvements. To say it straight out: The community should have priority over both "The Inc." and "The Founder". Otherwise it's not a community anymore, and I don't see a place for myself in it. Alternatively the two quoted nouns could find better ways for making compromises - without compromising the project - pun intended ;) If none of those objects are met I frighten for the future culture of this project, but so be it; I find another place to try to keep my mind sound, because quite honestly recently it has done quite the opposite[*] [*] With exceptions of course. No one mentioned, no one forgotten. PS: I've tried to keep this rant in a sober tone, although my state might not be so (otherwise I probably wouldn't have written it) and I expect any responses to it to be made in public. Frank Karlitschek Owner karlitschek commented 2 hours ago @tanghus Thanks a lot. I don´t think this has anything to do with Inc. or anything else. This is purely about the long term maintainability of the core. And this is something anything who wants that ownCloud still exists in 5-10 years should care about. We all know several other projects where this framework/libraries bloat went wrong. Frank Karlitschek Owner karlitschek commented 2 hours ago O.K. Let´s put this into core under this conditions: Full documentation how this should be used by app developers is available on doc.owncloud.org at the same time. At least two independent apps are fully ported to use this. @Raydiation maintains this for the time being exactly as the rest of the app framework. Someone actively Someone starts to port other pieces of ownCloud to use this so that we don´t have code duplication. Additionally we should also regularly check which code, frameworks or dependencies in core can be removed. Otherwise we run into a long term problem. tanghus commented an hour ago Full documentation how this should be used by app developers is available on doc.owncloud.org at the same time. Reasonable and preferable. At least two independent apps are fully ported to use this. I believe that should be the case for oC7 or oC8. Longterm dev is of essence. @Raydiation maintains this for the time being exactly as the rest of the app framework. I think this should be rephrased to "there must always be an active, responsible maintainer." which is documented in the source file. I don't know if there's a @maintainer tag in http://www.phpdoc.org/ ? That it should always be @Raydiation counts out the bus-factor ;) Also where would that that place all other core developers including you Frank? We have git blame and I've been personally hit by that recently ;) Someone actively Meaning what? If it's correct it doesn't have to change. This correlates with the maintainer or other developers related to this. Someone starts to port other pieces of ownCloud to use this so that we don´t have code duplication. Agreed. Additionally we should also regularly check which code, frameworks or dependencies in core can be removed. Otherwise we run into a long term problem. This should be addressed in a separate issue and I'm sorry @XXX that I kinda hijacked this issue for that. tanghus commented 19 minutes ago This is purely about the long term maintainability of the core. And this is something anything who wants that ownCloud still exists in 5-10 years should care about. To be very forthright I'm not not sure which ownCloud you mean here? Is it to be sure independent developers can produce efficient and secure code, or is it to secure that the Inc. have less dependencies when they use their paid work force to make solid apps for paying customers? The arguments and motives have become too opaque for me, and after 2½ years of mostly enjoying this project, I'll have to retract myself from it. @XXX sorry for misusing this PR. Frank Karlitschek Owner karlitschek commented 11 minutes ago @tanghus I´m not really sure what you mean here. Like I said this has nothing to do with Inc. or anything else. We all have invested a lot of time and energy into ownCloud. So it is in our all interested that the ownCloud core and the apps will be maintainable and stable and working and mostly bugfree for as long as possible. Because of that we have to do some quality check when architectural changes are done in the core. I think this is good maintainership in general.
Ever since I finally installed Kubuntu 10.4 Lucid Lynx I have had kernel crashes at least once a day, sometimes up to ten times a day. It's very frustrating and effectively breaks your workflow to put it mildly. I could easily come up with other, more harsh ways to describe the situation 😉
I have tried a variety of different kernels:
Some I can (sometimes) boot and let me work for 0-20 hours, others never reaches the login screen or goes into an infinite reboot loop.
If anyone experience the same or similar the relevant bug report is at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/585734 and it doesn't look promising. So now I have come to the conclusion that I need to install a pre-Lucid kernel and see if I can get it running. It will probably degrade X performance (if it even runs) and crash other applications but I'd rather live with that than having to reboot all the time.
Is it at all a viable solution to install a pre-Lucid kernel and if so how should it be done. What about graphic drivers (aren't they somehow partly kernel modules now?).
An agreement is always good. It's nice to agree about something. But what I hate is double negations and what I hate even more is triple negations.
Well, yes I got this blog so I thought I ought to write something. Last week I started working out at a local gym. Actually I was sent there by the municipal authorities because I'm unemployed, and in Denmark you have to be "activated" when you're unemployed, or you won't get any money. It's OK to go to the gym. I've never really liked these fitness centers with all the beefed up types, but this one is kinda relaxed. And it's good for me too. Haven't made anything physical for like 7 or 8 years and my computer is on the coffee table so I have no muscles and my shoulders and neck hurt like hell.